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	<title>Comments on: when the client wants all rights to a photo</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/</link>
	<description>professional photo techniques for all photographers</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 21:10:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sasha</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-14027</link>
		<dc:creator>Sasha</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jan 2009 06:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-14027</guid>
		<description>Jim, give me three more months and I will give you in-depth review along with a survivor guide)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, give me three more months and I will give you in-depth review along with a survivor guide)</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Hodgson</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6851</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Hodgson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6851</guid>
		<description>Jim, I have been visiting your site on a regular basis.
I thank you for the effort you put in day in and day out.
Especially this article, I too find it difficult to price an assignment, by reading what each person has written, it has helped me to think about the shoot and what will be involved. Communication with the client is key.

Keep up the excellent work.

From the great white North eh?  :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, I have been visiting your site on a regular basis.<br />
I thank you for the effort you put in day in and day out.<br />
Especially this article, I too find it difficult to price an assignment, by reading what each person has written, it has helped me to think about the shoot and what will be involved. Communication with the client is key.</p>
<p>Keep up the excellent work.</p>
<p>From the great white North eh?  <img src='http://www.prophotolife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: F. Stop</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6564</link>
		<dc:creator>F. Stop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 20:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6564</guid>
		<description>The subject most avoided here is "what to charge for," whatever gig you're asked to shoot. I would guess this is better answered with a range rather than specifics due to so many factors not the least of which is the competitive nature of most people in business for themselves. So I will give you a range from what I regularly see from the low end to the high end of NON-COMMERCIAL photographers that I know. $85 an hour at the very low end, to $250 and hour with 2 hour minimum by the hour, and $1200 a day with a $750 half days for general assignment photography. There are tons of circumstances that will make any of those figures go straight up, or straight down. I will tell you that the guys working at the lower end do not work near as much as the ones at the higher end. The best way to be successful at this as a career is to know your clients well and be able to give them AT A MINIMUM, exactly what they expect. Your goal is to always give them WAY MORE than they expect and this should insure that you succeed at some level. I know guys who'll shoot an event for a plate of BBQ, and I know guys who shoot commercial who pull in 200 to 300 grand a year. I don't know anyone in this business who is at any level successful who is doing it for the money alone, nor are any of those who consider themselves successful NOT enjoying the work. 

Be happy at whatever level you fall into and enjoy photography or find something else to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The subject most avoided here is &#8220;what to charge for,&#8221; whatever gig you&#8217;re asked to shoot. I would guess this is better answered with a range rather than specifics due to so many factors not the least of which is the competitive nature of most people in business for themselves. So I will give you a range from what I regularly see from the low end to the high end of NON-COMMERCIAL photographers that I know. $85 an hour at the very low end, to $250 and hour with 2 hour minimum by the hour, and $1200 a day with a $750 half days for general assignment photography. There are tons of circumstances that will make any of those figures go straight up, or straight down. I will tell you that the guys working at the lower end do not work near as much as the ones at the higher end. The best way to be successful at this as a career is to know your clients well and be able to give them AT A MINIMUM, exactly what they expect. Your goal is to always give them WAY MORE than they expect and this should insure that you succeed at some level. I know guys who&#8217;ll shoot an event for a plate of BBQ, and I know guys who shoot commercial who pull in 200 to 300 grand a year. I don&#8217;t know anyone in this business who is at any level successful who is doing it for the money alone, nor are any of those who consider themselves successful NOT enjoying the work. </p>
<p>Be happy at whatever level you fall into and enjoy photography or find something else to do.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6541</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 06 Dec 2008 00:58:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6541</guid>
		<description>Wow, an excellent article and very well though-out comments.  This article initially appealed to me as I've been asked by a friend of a friend to take a few photographs of a spa for a website.  Well, they've of course come to me as I'll get a decent photograph from time-to-time and I'm certainly no pro (read: am one of those who will work for cheap just so I can have the experience).  I really have no idea what to charge and I know they don't have the funds to compensate me even for the time it will take to make the photographs, much less the photographs themselves - they would be okay with throwing up some pics taken with their point and shoot if I charge too much.

Though I still don't know what I'll charge, I will bring along model releases and at least have an idea that photo rights are important :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, an excellent article and very well though-out comments.  This article initially appealed to me as I&#8217;ve been asked by a friend of a friend to take a few photographs of a spa for a website.  Well, they&#8217;ve of course come to me as I&#8217;ll get a decent photograph from time-to-time and I&#8217;m certainly no pro (read: am one of those who will work for cheap just so I can have the experience).  I really have no idea what to charge and I know they don&#8217;t have the funds to compensate me even for the time it will take to make the photographs, much less the photographs themselves - they would be okay with throwing up some pics taken with their point and shoot if I charge too much.</p>
<p>Though I still don&#8217;t know what I&#8217;ll charge, I will bring along model releases and at least have an idea that photo rights are important <img src='http://www.prophotolife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Jerry</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6536</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 21:27:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6536</guid>
		<description>Jim and William,
Thanks for your answers about how I can use the pictures... or not. I appreciate it.
Jerry</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim and William,<br />
Thanks for your answers about how I can use the pictures&#8230; or not. I appreciate it.<br />
Jerry</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Fairchild</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6530</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Fairchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 17:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6530</guid>
		<description>Jim, excellent points about the movie and music industry.  YOU WIN!!!!! I digress! Jim, you saved your best points for last. You could have a serious career as a trial lawyer. I'd hire you.   This was great fun.  I had a blast on this post and enjoyed everyone's comments.  

Yeah, light meters. I am usually always setting up before the client arrives and can chimp at it a a bit until I get it right.  My lighting set up varies quite a bit on location shoots due to extreme variances in ambient light and I can tell you that I really unfortunately haven't been able to shoot enough to develop a stronger sense of intuition about my lights.  I know that only comes with experience...lots of experience shooting and practicing.  Unfortunately, due to the launch of another business this past year I haven't had the time I would really like to just shoot, and shoot for me, not an assignment.  Hopefully, over the Christmas break (under the guise of family holiday portraiture) I can really get some personal time with my camera and speed lights without the pressure of the clock ticking.  

Many of the techniques I "know" I learned right here thanks to your posts, Jim and I appreciate all the work that goes into your blog.  It really helps someone like me who will never aspire to your depth and level of photography skills and knowledge but still can benefit from great bits of information and insight.  However, just knowing stuff is not enough.  I need time to go out and practice all these ideas that I've learned so it becomes intuitive and not a cerebral undertaking.  I'm workin at it.....one day I'll get the hang of it. Until then, though, I really really really am enjoying all the learning experiences along the way through your site.  Thanks for all the great advice and insight, Jim and I wish continued success to your studio and website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim, excellent points about the movie and music industry.  YOU WIN!!!!! I digress! Jim, you saved your best points for last. You could have a serious career as a trial lawyer. I&#8217;d hire you.   This was great fun.  I had a blast on this post and enjoyed everyone&#8217;s comments.  </p>
<p>Yeah, light meters. I am usually always setting up before the client arrives and can chimp at it a a bit until I get it right.  My lighting set up varies quite a bit on location shoots due to extreme variances in ambient light and I can tell you that I really unfortunately haven&#8217;t been able to shoot enough to develop a stronger sense of intuition about my lights.  I know that only comes with experience&#8230;lots of experience shooting and practicing.  Unfortunately, due to the launch of another business this past year I haven&#8217;t had the time I would really like to just shoot, and shoot for me, not an assignment.  Hopefully, over the Christmas break (under the guise of family holiday portraiture) I can really get some personal time with my camera and speed lights without the pressure of the clock ticking.  </p>
<p>Many of the techniques I &#8220;know&#8221; I learned right here thanks to your posts, Jim and I appreciate all the work that goes into your blog.  It really helps someone like me who will never aspire to your depth and level of photography skills and knowledge but still can benefit from great bits of information and insight.  However, just knowing stuff is not enough.  I need time to go out and practice all these ideas that I&#8217;ve learned so it becomes intuitive and not a cerebral undertaking.  I&#8217;m workin at it&#8230;..one day I&#8217;ll get the hang of it. Until then, though, I really really really am enjoying all the learning experiences along the way through your site.  Thanks for all the great advice and insight, Jim and I wish continued success to your studio and website.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Talkington</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6518</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Talkington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:03:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6518</guid>
		<description>I'm smiling right now because this could go on forever...and it does...and that's why it's not a cut-and-dried topic.  :)

Just one mention and a perspective: I'm not super-familiar with the motion picture industry and directors but, as Adrien said, they don't just get a paycheck and it's done. They get paid a fixed amount no matter what the movie does but they also negotiate for "points". If the movie is successful then they share in a percentage of the distributor's adjusted gross. If the movie is licensed for television then the directors, actors and writers all share in the residuals. The same goes in the music industry, the writers and musicians get paid when their song is played, in addition to the creative fee. 

Here's where it gets complicated: we recognize the above people as artists. Are advertising photographers artists? Or are we blue collar tradesmen? Some clients treat us like artists, some view as as plumbers there to fix a leak. My studio works for a mix of both and we do treat the situation differently. More on that next week.

Toby...light meters! I really only use a meter for the situations you've alluded to, when the client is on the set and it has to be set up correctly the first time. I've used my lights so many times there's an intuition about power settings. But to nail it on the first go 'round, definitely get a meter. My Minolta IV is always in the bag, just in case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m smiling right now because this could go on forever&#8230;and it does&#8230;and that&#8217;s why it&#8217;s not a cut-and-dried topic.  <img src='http://www.prophotolife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Just one mention and a perspective: I&#8217;m not super-familiar with the motion picture industry and directors but, as Adrien said, they don&#8217;t just get a paycheck and it&#8217;s done. They get paid a fixed amount no matter what the movie does but they also negotiate for &#8220;points&#8221;. If the movie is successful then they share in a percentage of the distributor&#8217;s adjusted gross. If the movie is licensed for television then the directors, actors and writers all share in the residuals. The same goes in the music industry, the writers and musicians get paid when their song is played, in addition to the creative fee. </p>
<p>Here&#8217;s where it gets complicated: we recognize the above people as artists. Are advertising photographers artists? Or are we blue collar tradesmen? Some clients treat us like artists, some view as as plumbers there to fix a leak. My studio works for a mix of both and we do treat the situation differently. More on that next week.</p>
<p>Toby&#8230;light meters! I really only use a meter for the situations you&#8217;ve alluded to, when the client is on the set and it has to be set up correctly the first time. I&#8217;ve used my lights so many times there&#8217;s an intuition about power settings. But to nail it on the first go &#8217;round, definitely get a meter. My Minolta IV is always in the bag, just in case.</p>
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		<title>By: Toby Fairchild</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6512</link>
		<dc:creator>Toby Fairchild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Dec 2008 09:56:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6512</guid>
		<description>Good points made by all.  I like the responses from this post.  It helps bring a broader and better vision of what is clearly not a cut and dry topic.  It's nice to be aware of all the different points of view.  It helps to guage where my vies falls in the grand mix.  

Touche Jim, with the software analogy.  We all license the software that we "buy".  I would, however use K Kathman's argument that the software companies, not us the clients, paid to have that product made and can therefore choose to distribute it however they see fit.  As does the movie industry where the movie studio paid to have that product made, not us or even the director.  The director who shot the film collected his pay and turned it over to the client....the movie studio...the guys who bankrolled the whole job.  I would like to see a movie director tell the studios that they can "use" the movie for a certain length of time but that since he shot the film, the intellectual property belongs to him/her. If, on the other hand, a photographer chose to shoot some micro-stock and put it on, let's say, istockphoto for the purpose of financial gain, then since the photographer is the one commissioning the art then he/she absolutely should have sole discression over it's distribution methods. 

On another note, having learned many valuable nuggets of information from this blog and Jim, I was wondering, Jim, do you frequently use light meters in your studio &#38; location shoots?  I have not purchased a light meter yet.  The reason I am interested in doing so now is I'd like to cut down the amount of time it takes to get exposures dialed in.  The amount of time it takes me is a minor inconvenience but I would really like some improvement in that area.  Sorry to post this question on this thread.  Let me know if there is a more appropriate place to ask a question like this.  I think I have seen (many times) most if not all of  your videos.  Have you done any on your methods of light metering?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good points made by all.  I like the responses from this post.  It helps bring a broader and better vision of what is clearly not a cut and dry topic.  It&#8217;s nice to be aware of all the different points of view.  It helps to guage where my vies falls in the grand mix.  </p>
<p>Touche Jim, with the software analogy.  We all license the software that we &#8220;buy&#8221;.  I would, however use K Kathman&#8217;s argument that the software companies, not us the clients, paid to have that product made and can therefore choose to distribute it however they see fit.  As does the movie industry where the movie studio paid to have that product made, not us or even the director.  The director who shot the film collected his pay and turned it over to the client&#8230;.the movie studio&#8230;the guys who bankrolled the whole job.  I would like to see a movie director tell the studios that they can &#8220;use&#8221; the movie for a certain length of time but that since he shot the film, the intellectual property belongs to him/her. If, on the other hand, a photographer chose to shoot some micro-stock and put it on, let&#8217;s say, istockphoto for the purpose of financial gain, then since the photographer is the one commissioning the art then he/she absolutely should have sole discression over it&#8217;s distribution methods. </p>
<p>On another note, having learned many valuable nuggets of information from this blog and Jim, I was wondering, Jim, do you frequently use light meters in your studio &amp; location shoots?  I have not purchased a light meter yet.  The reason I am interested in doing so now is I&#8217;d like to cut down the amount of time it takes to get exposures dialed in.  The amount of time it takes me is a minor inconvenience but I would really like some improvement in that area.  Sorry to post this question on this thread.  Let me know if there is a more appropriate place to ask a question like this.  I think I have seen (many times) most if not all of  your videos.  Have you done any on your methods of light metering?</p>
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		<title>By: Adrien</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6502</link>
		<dc:creator>Adrien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 23:19:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6502</guid>
		<description>Thanks K Kathmann, I think you have pointed out where my movie analogy breaks down. Some entity does however hold the copyright to it. In the case of a photo, an individual does create it, unless that individual relinquishes the right to be that entity. That was my point. Unless someone agrees to that arrangement, the creator is, by default, the copyright holder. I think we can all agree that as photographers, we need to be flexible and creative, depending upon the situation. For actor headshots, for example, I normally give them the right to use it forever, knowing that it has a specific and limited purpose anyway. But I keep the copyright :-) That's usually just noise to them.
Adrien</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks K Kathmann, I think you have pointed out where my movie analogy breaks down. Some entity does however hold the copyright to it. In the case of a photo, an individual does create it, unless that individual relinquishes the right to be that entity. That was my point. Unless someone agrees to that arrangement, the creator is, by default, the copyright holder. I think we can all agree that as photographers, we need to be flexible and creative, depending upon the situation. For actor headshots, for example, I normally give them the right to use it forever, knowing that it has a specific and limited purpose anyway. But I keep the copyright <img src='http://www.prophotolife.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> That&#8217;s usually just noise to them.<br />
Adrien</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Talkington</title>
		<link>http://www.prophotolife.com/2008/12/03/when-the-client-wants-all-rights-to-a-photo/comment-page-1/#comment-6500</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Talkington</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 22:47:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.prophotolife.com/?p=2395#comment-6500</guid>
		<description>I want to thank everyone that's been part of this exchange, I think it's extremely valuable for any aspiring professional photographer to read. They rarely get to hear the concerns from so many perspectives but these are the issues we all face daily. It would be great to take this show on the road to some photo schools, hopefully some students are tuning in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I want to thank everyone that&#8217;s been part of this exchange, I think it&#8217;s extremely valuable for any aspiring professional photographer to read. They rarely get to hear the concerns from so many perspectives but these are the issues we all face daily. It would be great to take this show on the road to some photo schools, hopefully some students are tuning in.</p>
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